10 Responses to The British Empire and the Vatican

1. Steve says:

   August 2, 2012 at 4:32 pm

   Hi,
   Good show. Very enlightening. However, I would caution in one area. You guys had a short interlude about the true church/false church and true teachers and false teachers. Whilst the visible church is overwhelmingly apostate, there are plenty of faithful ministers preaching the truth. You do however have to look rather hard but the Lord always preserves his remnant. So one shouldn’t jump to the conclusion that there are no biblical churches out there and pull out and go solo.

   Also, as scripture teaches, salvation is a supernatural work of God. He saves His people and keeps them. On the flip side, in light of Romans 1, false teachers and false doctrine can easily be viewed as a form of judgment God uses to separate the sheep from the goats.

   Please don’t think I’m being flippant about this because I’m not. My wife, as it turns out, now believes a “different gospel” and “another Jesus”. These are serious issues, I know. And it hits home for me, because its in the process of wrecking my family and we have two small children.

   Thanks.

   Reply
   • cmardern says:

     August 2, 2012 at 5:54 pm

     Thanks for sharing Steve
     I am open to a “:church” that is teaching the truth these days, havn’t found one, and I look. There seems to be a roadblock between the hirling sheperd and the 501C3 corporate status that the truth does not coexist with. I only see true remnant in the wilderness detached from the corporate system.
     I sure feel your pain concerning your family went through it all myself. Jesus warned us and we find solace in scripture but it doesn’t make the pain go away. The Lord uses the most precious things in our lives to test us, He is serious about those who claim to be his. This is so hard to accept today in the church environment because such emphasis is placed on relationship but when the truth severes relationships the first option is to compromise the truth to restore the relationship. That is exactly what scripture warns not to do. This is the perplexity Jesus taught in the Olivette Discourse. He makes a way but the logic of the world isn’t the solution.
     Thanks again for sharing Steve
     Chris

     Reply
     • Steve says:

       August 2, 2012 at 8:12 pm

       I hear you on the whole compromise thing Chris. He didn’t come to bring peace on earth, he came with a sword, right?

       On the 501c3 issue. Many look at this as a black or white issue but I’m of the opinion that there are shades of grey here. Its a far more complex issue that most care to admit. It seems like many on alternative Christian media are very quick to label 501c3 churches “whore” churches, those who attend them as apostates and in doing so, fail to see the finer points which often present a different viewpoint.

       For instance; Loads of churches got their tax exempt status before the implications where fully appreciated. Let’s be honest, up until a decade ago, the vast majority of us were ignorant and hadn’t a clue what was going on. Me included. As such the getting 501c3 status was a business decision that actually made some sense if one where make the mistake of looking at the church that way.

       Few realized that the world would accelerate along the course it has and at such a break neck speed. Its only in the last few years that those of us who’ve had our eyes opened, realized what the implications where and what a compromise the 501c3 actually is. Fewer still understand where it leads to.

       The result is that you have many sincere and God loving people trapped by a decision that was made in ignorance and often not by them. And I would have to include many ministers in that category too. Point of fact, the vast majority still have no clue as to what is taking place and won’t for quite some time.

       Speaking for myself; I consider all genuine believers brothers and sisters in Christ because they are. Therefore I would not use the 501c3 as a reason not to attend a church, because I’m there to serve, not to be served. For me it would be based entirely on the quality of their doctrine because, I from what I see in scripture, this is what separates the goats from the elect. And despite any foolish choices that may have been made in the past, they’re still family.

       No doubt, there will come a time when the 501c3 will bring about major persecution and you will see the sheep and the goats split within the local congregation, even the non-tax exempt ones. But this is the way its been for Christians since the beginning and persecution persists in most parts of the world. So really, it goes with the territory doesn’t ?

       As sons and daughters of the Most High, I don’t think self preservation should be high on our list of priorities. We should be the kind of people who fearlessly stick out necks out to glorify our Savior and edify his people, even if they’re ignorant and have done stupid things. And, more to the point, even if it costs us our lives. We shouldn’t let the 501c3 further weaken our unity.
       Thanks Chris
2. Dan Haffke says:

   August 5, 2012 at 10:53 am

   When a “church” is run like a business, it is just that, a business. Tax free status, salaries, expenses, etc. Do we really know the person who stands as a “leader” ? Isn’t he more or less a ceo, or president type ? And what is it, really, to serve ? How do we serve in a congregation ? Do we sweep the parking lot ? Are we finding-out who in the congregation has a need and then helping to share the burden ? How many of us have the testimony Chris has, of being thrown-out of a congregation, for exposing error ? In all reality, the “church” of today is nothing like the early groups of believers who had all things in common and took care of each other. The world has most assuredly gotten in, and corrupted the body. Now, this is true, and it has been like that from the beginning. What does it mean to be un-equally yoked ? I for one hate the wilderness, but just yesterday, I was with “christians”, and some of them actually support abortion, killing someone trying to rob them, killing in the name of national security, I mean where does this belief system come from ? It is not new testament teaching. It is contrary to Christ, contrary to Paul, but, it is prevalent. It comes from the “churches”. Take the chicken place for example, is that a worthy cause ? I wonder how many of those “supporters” would gather like that at an abortion clinic ? But, let every “good” “church” “christian”, stand up for the right to condemn homosexuality. It’s all rather twisted, really. I’m not pontificating, but where do we draw the line ? A little leaven…….
   Thanks, Dan

   Reply
3. Gordon Comstock says:

   August 6, 2012 at 2:10 am

   I do indeed see the 501c3/church, inc. status issue as black and white, cut and dry.
   Jesus said: “Come out of her, my people.”
   There are saved people in the worldly-incorporated churches, but they need to heed Jesus’s words and come out, the sooner the better.
   Scripture tells us not to take even a shoelatchet from the King of Sodom; incorporated 501c3 churches have taken a whole lot more than that.
   Scripture tells us not to make any covenants with the Gentiles; incorporated 501c3 churches have done just that.
   Scripture tells us not to take any gifts from the Gentiles; incorporated 501c3 churches have taken all kinds of gifts in the form of tax exemptions they didn’t even need.
   Scripture tells us that Jesus is the Head of His Church; incorporated 501c3 churches have publicly and contractually declared th at the State is their Head, as attested to by numerous court cases in the past few decades, such as Hale v. Henkel.
   Scripture tells us that churches are to be the Good Wife while the Good Man is away, dutifully awaiting His return; incorporated 501c3 churches have gone awhoring after another lover.
   Scripture tells us that the double-minded man is unstable in all things, and that we cannot serve two masters; incorporated 501c3 churches are contractually double-minded and seeking in vain to serve two masters.
   Scripture teaches us to be “called out ones”, that is, the “ecclesia”, and to be “a peculiar people”; incorporated 501c3 churches are not peculiar to the world at all, and are simply contractually doing what all the other false churches, such as the “church of Satan”, does.
   Scripture asks, “What concord hath Christ with Belial?”; given that the “church of Satan” and the mormons and all other bogus cults are signed up with the 501c3 and incorporated status, what in the world are churches doing being in concord with that process??
   Scripture says that a shepherd who is drawing a regular salary for preaching the Gospel is a “hireling shepherd” and this person does not and will not care about his flock; 501c3 incorporated pastors draw a regular salary and are, by clear scriptural definition, hireling shepherds.
   Scripture has plenty more to say about 501c3/state incorporated status, and it’s all in black-and-white obvious text for those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.
   For those involved in those spiritual whore houses, come out of her, His people!
   99% of churches in America have sold out. Only 1% of churches are real New Testament churches, plus anyone who meets in peoople’s homes nowadays, just like the first Apostles did.

   Reply
4. GC says:

   August 7, 2012 at 4:08 am

   No doubt many people who are currently attending incorporated 501c3 whore “churches” are saved. However, they need to flee Babylon, flee that assembly, because Scripture is indeed black-and-white on this issue. Here are only some of the black-and-white relevant verses:
   James 1:8
   A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
   Matthew 6:24
   No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
   Genesis 14:23
   That I will not take from a thread even to a shoelatchet, and that I will not take any thing that is thine, lest thou shouldest say, I have made Abram rich:
   3 John 1:7
   Because that for his name’s sake they went forth, taking nothing of the Gentiles.
   Exodus 23:32
   You shall make no covenant with them, nor with their gods
   Colossians 1:18
   And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
   Exodus 34:12
   Take heed to yourself, that you make no covenant, with the inhabitants of the land, where you are going, or they will be a snare in your midst
   1 Peter 2:9
   But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light
   Revelation 18:4
   And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues

   Reply
   • cmardern says:

     August 10, 2012 at 2:31 am

     Good comment Gordon I agree, there is no compromise here “come out” that is not a suggestion.
     Thanks for the input
     Chris

     Reply
5. Steve says:

   August 10, 2012 at 5:24 am

   Guys, I’m not trying to be contentious but I simply don’t see eye to eye with you on this issue. I’m neither in the “wilderness” nor in a state owned “church”. I have, however, been in the wilderness twice, each time for more than a year, so I have walked the path before and know the dangers well.

   The whole issue revolves around what church really is. The bible defines it as Gods people. Those whom he has chosen to save and adopt as his children. Today, most think of church as a “Sunday service”. But real biblical fellowship is more a picture of a bible study than of that Sunday meeting. True biblical fellowship is an intimate thing. God’s people involved in each others lives. Studying Gods word, praying together, and serving God each other. It has nothing to do with corporate structures, tax exemption or any other man made thing. I think we can agree on this.

   However, I also attend a bible study with about a dozen people. Some from a “corporate” church, some from the church I attend and others don’t attend Sunday church at all. Are you suggesting that I that there is a compromise taking place within this context? Should I not attend this bible study because some of the others attend a “501c3”? Is this a black and white issue? I think not.

   Reply
6. Tom Sinclair says:

   August 16, 2015 at 8:31 pm

   I find the whole 5013c discussion a waste of time. Did not Jesus say that the children in this generation are wiser than the children of light (speaking of money)? And that we ought to be wise as serpents, but harmless as doves? I’ve not attended a church for at least 3 years, but when I did, I never noticed any government goons censoring the pastor. Is the current church Babylon? Of course. But do some 501c3 designated organizations provide opportunity for me to give to the Lord, feeding widows and orphans, and allow me to get some of my illegally taxed money back in the end? I could care less if they really don’t do what they propose they do. God will judge them. I give to God through them, trusting that He is able to keep good accounting of my heart and finances. Same with the homeless. I have no qualms about giving a homeless beggar cash. I used to fall into the trap of being a “judge with an evil heart”. I don’t know their backstory, nor can I have any idea what God is doing in their life. I just know, that I am to be like Him, and show compassion and mercy. I thank God that He makes it so easy to give and provides ample opportunity for me to express my faith. Go ahead and strain out that 5013c nat if you wish, but don’t we have better things to do with our time?

   Reply
7. Tom Sinclair says:

   August 16, 2015 at 8:41 pm

   And one more thought…you can’t help being somewhat intertwined financially with the world’s system. So why would you not take full advantage of it (wise as a serpent), until it was no longer feasible? I am amazed at Eric Jon Phelps work on the Jesuits, but am dumbfounded on the lunacy of becoming a “private citizen”. Paul embraced his Roman citizenship when he thought it would serve him. Why would you spend your time (and $1750.00 to Phelps) in becoming a private citizen? And hypocritically Phelps has no qualms about taking those gov’t greenbacks – shouldn’t he take some form of “private citizen” exchange instead? Just sayin….

   Reply

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